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At that time my landlord requested that I use an exchange rate that was 16,500 when the bank rate was 16,100. I gave him the money with the bank rate and he has been extremely rude to me since.
I can live with that I suppose but this month he flipped out when I showed him the 16,600 bank rate and presented my rent money to him. He is now demanding 18,500 exchange rate (the black market rate).
I have a few plans in progress on how to deal with this, so not posting this to ask for advice so much as just curious as to what other folks are doing re this.
I have a friend who made sure his rent contract is in VND, so am working on moving towards this.
Look forward to hearing your feedback.
Steph
rent dollars (add tags) Why?
answered about 2 months ago by wesmo7583
my contract stated that any VND payment would be at the bank's exchange rate.
answered about 2 months ago by mnguyen
My contract is in USD, but I pay in VND. Last month I had to pay a higher amount, which I realize now is perfectly fair. The bank rank is not the real rate, and my landlord is not trying to screw me, but is trying to avoid being screwed.
answered about 2 months ago by Stosskraft
This topic has been coming up alot. It is ILLEGAL for companies within Vietnam to do transactions in a foreign currency. You landlord needs a special business "code" to rent to foreigners and is taxed at 25% when renting to us. This means landlords are tryng to use the current situation not only to gouge a few exta dollars out, but he will in turn claim the normal rate when submitting their tax (being taxed at the normal rate..the government does not OFFICIALLY do business at the black market rate)... I have had a similar problem at my current place (Hanh Hotel) Recommendations. Simple pay at normal bank rate, and demand a VAT slip when you pay. If he kicks a fuss threaten to contact someone at the tax department...yes it maybe a bluff but it can be done (it is easy to find the information online if you read VN) and if alot of foreigners start raising a fuss then people will pay attention. With the current clamp down on selling USD by the government and most likely additional restrictions this week, we need to get together as a community and refuse to be taken advantage of by greedy people and landlords. The best thing to do is what wesmo did and have the contract clearly state that you pay at the current exchange rate. It is completely insane to think that us paying the black market rate (that is basically stealing from us an giving it to other people) when many foreigners including myself cannot even exchange our own money at the current rate at the banks in order to leave the country !
answered about 2 months ago by 4inhanoi
Agree with Wesmo: put in your contract that you pay at the bank exchange rate. My office requires that anyway. If necessary write a short addendum in vietnamese and english to your contract. If you have an office or organisation behind you: claim that they request this from you, in order to save losing face for any of you. If it is just between you and the landlord, I am afraid that you will lose this fight one way or another. It is not great to live in a house and be at war with the landlord and sooner or later something will start leaking or something breaks down and you will need the landlord. Maybe I have been here too long, but I have seen people put up a fight about these things and the consequences are not always pretty: I know people who were basically kicked out of their house, contract or no contract.... what are you going to do: go to a vietnamese court? Having said all that, I completely understand the frustration and unfairness that can be read in posts like Stosskraft's. He is of course 100% right! Good luck....
answered about 2 months ago by pepperdex
The same thing happened to me. My rent jumped up $40usd due to the change in currency ( or being charged at the black market rate ). That was last month. This month it's going to be even higher! My salary is paid in VND according to the official rate the bank releases on the day. So who is getting screwed mnguyen? So yes, I feel your frustration Steph. Ps: Thanks for the info Stosskraft.
answered about 2 months ago by travelgoddess
UPDATE: After 1 week and 2 attempts to pay my rent at the bank rate (and my landlord refusing to take it), he came to my apartment tonight asking for rent money. I told him that I tried to pay before and showed him the money (in dong) and the print out of the bank rate from Vietcombank (the same one he yelled at me for showing him the other times). He was NOT happy about it, and said "but you want to pay $180" (his calc with the black market rate). "You must leave." He said. I told him if he accepts the legal rate (I was showing him from a bank in HIS country) that I would leave before the next rent due date. He DID argue with me some more, but in the end his wife pushed him to accept the money. I should mention that there are two things that have mysteriously gone wrong with the apartment in the past week during this friction. Neither of which I am telling him about (nor fixing) before I leave. I already have a place set up to move into a little over a week before my next payday here, so am covered on that end. Good news is that he never asked for nor received a deposit, so I have nothing to lose but being a bit uncomfortable when I see him for the next 2 weeks. I wish I could tell you that this feels like a win, but it just feels crappy. It sucks to have to fight to pay overpriced rent in a moldy, run down ROOM. Oh well, live and learn. My next rent contract WILL BE in dong, its already agreed upon, so thank goodness for lesson learned. Best luck to anyone else in this situation, I dont necessarily suggest following in my footsteps, but wanted to share an option you have in this situation. Steph
answered about 2 months ago by Garrett
I'm glad to hear you've resolved the issue to some extent. What's clear from situations like this is that there needs to be a place where people voice their complaints about their landlords (like New Hanoian). The attitude of most landlords is that if you refuse to pay or disagree they can always find a foreigner willing to accept their price and terms. This is generally true, but mostly because people are unaware of their other options or the problems previous tenants had. By letting the general community-or at least some portion of the expat population-know about your bad experiences with a certain building or landlord, people will be hesitant to deal with them in the future. Its a landlord's market and they know it, but if landlords like yours couldn't find a tenant for at least a bit, they might start to cede in rental terms. For the record, my contract includes a stipulation that we will pay at the Vietcombank rate. Not that it matters since we had to pay 6 months up front. We fought for a bit on that point, but gave in. I'm sure our landlord is upset they are stuck with 16000 through August.
Travelgoddess, great to hear you stood up to him and won, its good to know people are at least trying to fight these unscrupulous landlords...even though it is easier said than done. I wonder what would happen if you would threaten to call the police? I know normally they are useless but if a trend starts occurring they might have to do something? In cases like you had, try to be careful not to make the landlord "lose face" as it will turn sour quickly. Also try to use a 3rd party to give bad news like "my company advised me do to this.." or the "foreign community made me aware this is against the law" something like that as it gives you a better backing and they are less likely to lose face with a direct confrontation...the concept of face is hard to describe really, but remember it is very serious for Vietnamese to save face and they are willing to do anything to protect it. I am not trying to scare you, as I think you did the right thing but try not to butt heads when discussing money with Vietnamese...a indirect way is the best...I used for my landlord "Oh sorry, my company advised my its illegal to pay black market rate, so since they pay you will have to call them and discuss why you want more"...since then she hasn't asked for the black market rate... I wonder if we are allowed to start a thread naming landlords and address we this is happening (Mods)? I hope you name and shame them here to help others in the same boat, good luck
Thanks for all the support. Stosskraft, your advice is really good, and I will def use it going forward, since this issue is (thank goddess) over. I think a mix of me own stubbornness on this issue with your saving face advice would have been the best plan of attack. I am tempted to list the address and landlord info, but dont want to do so as an angry act. So, adding this idea to me calendar to do list, and after I move out, if I feel overall he was horrible to deal with, I will vocalize it. Best, Steph
Hello , glad to hear you on the way out. Let us know it is once your gone, please. I'll be out of my place once I find something else ....
answered about 2 months ago by Elliewelliesj
Aaah similar situation going on with my landlady - my rent is due on the 3rd but I saw her today as my water has stopped working. (fingers crossed she fixes it tomorrow as promised after our dong/dollar conversation) So she is insisting on dollars - we told her we dont have any, that we are paid in dong. We even showed her a printed letter from ILA our employer to prove this. She said she will take us to the "free market" to buy dollar. We said no, it is illegal and that our company told us not to, etc etc. She isnt having it. I tried to stick to the "our company says" routine and telling her that we will pay the bank rate - but still she wont have it. Aaaaah! we left it at that, she will come back on the 3rd and perhaps I should announce that we are leaving... cant see any other way for it to be solved.
Oh and she said that she needs dollars because her children are overseas at school so she needs to pay their fees.... yet a few months ago when we did have dollars she complained that one note was too old and she couldnt change it to dong! so she is blatantly lying.
answered about 2 months ago by Mike
The way I see the situation here is that we are not operating in a commercial environment that is familiar to us. House owners would rather have their place vacant than loose face in accepting anything less than their expectations, and all this is made worse by the current boom/inflation mentality. We had a situation recently with a house owner looking for tenants, the place has been empty for a least a year, the rent is $550, but he wanted 12 months payable in advance, plus a "deposit" of $5,000. What is driving this, certainly not a desire to secure a tenant? I suspect that his only motive is to have $11,600 in his hand to cash in on the current exchange rate fluctuations. Even more childish was his insistence that if we did not take his offer, he had a Japanese who wanted to move in immediately (but he would prefer us because he didn't like Japanese). We declined his offer, and of course e said no problems, he will contact the Japanese and sign a contract later that day. That night the house owner phones, again asking if we would take his offer, as he was just going to offer one more time, out of the goodness of his heart. I expect this place will be vacant for a bit longer!!!
answered about 2 months ago by Joey
I went to the Auscham thing last week on the Vietnamese economy. It was informative and the good news on the property front is a prediction that the bubble is about to burst. As for the rent and greedy landlords, I know that my landlord had me sign two rental agreements, one at a lower price than my agreed rent, so he doesn't have to pay as much tax. I am tipping I am not the only one doing this, so well done for travelgoddess on standing your ground.
I was working a deal on a house from this site, but the landlady insisted on USD and would not except VND at all. She then asked if we could sign another contract for her to save taxes, we agreed if she would accept VND at bank rate and she got angry. So we canceled everything. I would like to start a tread of warning system for houses being advertised on here. Maybe they would have to state if they required payment in USD or VND and if they will accept the bank rate. I wonder if landlords posting on here for free, should have to disclose some of the general terms of the contracts they are offering? This landlady said we would have to register every guest that comes to the house as it is Vietnamese law, yet she got upset when I mentioned that it is also the law to accept payment in VND at bank rate. Also another red flag was I asked for the contact details of the last tenant (I hope others do this also, a good way to judge the reaction of the landlord and see if they will do this) so that I could contact them and ask if they got their deposit back, after the contract. Not surprisingly the landlady said they were not good renters and would not discuss their contract (meaning she wouldn't tell me if the deposit was returned and if they finished the contract) so given all this I would strong give it a miss... During the negotiations she asked if we would sign a separate contract stating we were paying only $200 again to save taxes, we did initially agree if we could pay in VND, but she would not agree with this.
Another twist to all of this..... had a landlord this week offer a "deal too good to miss".... we pay him $7,000 cash (in USD of course), we stay in the house "rent free" (his words) for 5 years, and after 5 years he would return the $7,000 (oh yeah!!!). His simple motive.... to get his hands on USD and make a killing on some get-rich scheme. These economic times are certainly bringing some craziness onto the scene!!!!
answered about 2 months ago by letsgoeverywhere
Today's official bank rate jumped to VND17,000.
answered about 1 month ago by jestert79
Ha, and I thought I was immune to this. I just got home and got my "rent notice." For 9 months it's always said the USD, then how much in VND, but suddenly for our last three months' rent it says "1800 USD only." Well, time to text the landlady and have the same problem as everyone else, I suppose...
answered about 1 month ago by Elliewelliesj
So the bank rate is going up? how about the black market? or as my landlady likes to call it the "free market" ... we asked around today and they were buying dollars for 17,100 - but I had expected around 18 or 19.... Is it balancing out now?
answered about 1 month ago by teacherman
It's not so much "balancing out" ... as the value of the US dollar has been falling even faster than the dong as the American economy collapses.
Sorry, i just mean the bank rate and the black market rate - just trying to make sure my landlady doesnt try to screw us over anymore!
answered about 1 month ago by maihanoi
Randomly, I have a suggestion for those who are still house-hunting, inspired by Mike's encounter. Given that they have their 'other customers", why don't the house-hunting ones also try the same trick by saying, "many interested landlords"? :P
answered about 1 month ago by grubby
A quick note regarding housing posted in this site's 'housing' section: any registered user is free to post whatever they like there, so this site offers no assurance of the quality of said dwellings or their landlords. In the early days of the site we did discuss giving rental properties the same treatment as other businesses: ie, allowing them to be rated and reviewed, photographed, etc. On further consideration we concluded that there must be too many rental properties in Hanoi to make any kind of rating system meaningful. This and other similar Aska threads has given us reason to reconsider that early conclusion; it might actually be appropriate to list rental houses as places to be rated and reviewed. People have feelings about their rental abode every bit as strong as they do about some pizza joint, it strikes me. On the positive side of the equation it seems simple enough: you like a place, so you rate it positively; the next time it is listed for rent it should be snapped up. On the negative side is where the problems sneak in. If a place has strong negative reviews, there is little to stop a landlord or agent from simply creating a new listing. The two of us who run this site certainly don't have time to physically verify every rental property. It's not a simple problem, but it's something we will surely look more closely at in the coming weeks. As always, your comments, criticisms and suggestions are invited, either here or to info@newhanoian.com (or by pm to alpha and grubby)
