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Can we do something about the utter rubbish section. It seems that there are some people who are playing with this click. I agree with all the others click but the one who will click on the utter rubbish must be identified and explain.
utterrubbish (add tags) Why? Details of tags
answered about 5 months ago by jimbo
You are proposing that anyone who agrees with you can do so anonymously, but if someone disagrees with you then they must be publicly identified? The purpose of the utter rubbish option is to avoid people getting into tit-for-tat arguments and ruining the website. Once the rubbish choice is made, that person cannot click on it again. So if you're getting more than one negative vote, it's coming from more than one person.
answered about 5 months ago by granteralus
I agree with jimbo. It's a valuable feature and deserves to stay.
Hmm... someone seems to be appreciating and utilizing the feature on this very thread!! Can you say "irony"?
Who are these people who choose to anonymously disagree with those who disagree with the statement that users of this site should not be given the ability to anonymously disagree? Show your faces! You rubbish clickers of those who enjoy the rubbish click! And whether you show your face or not, thank you for proving our point.
answered about 5 months ago by bobthebob01
LOL yes you are right granteralus, it's pretty ironic! and i also agree with jimbo. it's a good feature. So what if someone wants to stay anonymous. Too bad i can't "Utter Rubbish" the question itself.....LOL.....i would be even more ironic!
answered about 5 months ago by Khumbu
I agree that it's a good idea to allow anonymous ratings to minimise 'flame wars'. Nevertheless, it might be helpful to know exactly _why_ someone thought that your comment was absolute rubbish ... good to be able to get feedback this way, so one can reconsider one's opinion based on why the person disagreed with you. However, given that a couple of times I've used the utter rubbish rating it was because I thought what the person was saying was bigoted twottery, I'm not sure exactly how anonymous feedback could be controlled so it didn't just degenerate into mud slinging (I probably would have called the person names, given an anonymous chance - I'm not a perfect person, I'm afraid). Requiring each rating-linked comment to be administrator approved before publication seems like a lot of effort to me, & I'm sure TNH administrators have off-line lives to lead as well.
Maybe the problem is the extreme nature of the choice, perhaps an extra button like 'I'm dubious' or 'doubtful' for those who disagree but don't think the review is total rubbish would help ease the pain of making this choice. I'll bet a lot of readers are doubtful about some of the ridiculously petty complaints leveled at businesses on here, but don't want to utterly trash the review.
Jimbo, personally, I find it's more to do with me wanting to be quite rude about what a person has written, and using the 'utter rubbish' button as a polite expression of that impulse. If I'm doubtful about what the poster has written, I either keep it in mind for future validation, disregard it, or write my own response.
answered about 5 months ago by natinnam
I notice every answer has been given an "Utter Rubbish" wonder who would be doing that ? Jimbo is right, it should stay, as in general the people who use this site know, when a con is going down. I see Cant & Green gave Green Mango a right pasting, these are 2 first time reviews, who must have gone together, as they both joined NH on the 11th Aug, if you go down the list of reviews, you see that long timers have given the place good reviews, so understandable, that their reviews got so much "Utter Rubbish". As for PhillipeP many "Utter Rubbish" reviews, that can only down to the 1 or 2 lines he writes, i know i'd give it so. Espesially when there are so many good reviewers on this site, no one wants to read "Place nice, beer cheap" Five stars !! It's one reason i don't write that much, iam just a engineer, men of few words, but when you read generally what the teachers write, they put alot of effort in, so anything under 2 or 3 lines, doesn't cut it these days. Just my thoughts anyway, sure i'll get shot down at some point :-)
I'd like to thank the users who rated my previous post 'utter rubbish' - it nicely illustrates the point I was making. I made comment as to what I do personally. It's not utter rubbish when it comes to factual accuracy. I don't think that anyone is really disputing this. Instead, a couple of TNH posters (to date) had a emotive reaction to what I was saying, and thus rated my post 'utter rubbish' to express that. Good work!
answered about 5 months ago by Atomic
I'm so confused.
answered about 5 months ago by PhilippeP
The purpose of identifying the utter rubbish is obvious to me. First to avoid any abuse or people just being negative as you can see in all your comments, I would love to hear what the people who clicks utter rubbish on your comments, have to say. The other answers do not need any explaination, it speak by itself however someone who disagree, it is interesting and may be positive to know what are their explainations. I am interested in hearing pro and con however it will not change the experience I had. If there are a lot of negative reviews I might go back to the place to have another experience however I will not consider whatever the number of utter rubbish clicks. Now I understand that it might take a lot of bytes and might slow down the website however I do not agree with the flame wars, we seem to be adult and we try with this website to find the best of hanoi and take benefit of the others experience. For me if your intention is to click on the utter rubbish it means to me that you already went to the place and probably gave your opinion before or if not this is the time to give it on the site even in my opinion you do not have the spelling or the well written academic english, I think it is a very discriminatory for non english speaking as a mother tongue. Anonymous Utter rubbish for me is the same thing like the people who write, make comments, criticize on this website under a fake name without putting a picture or give their real name.
answered about 5 months ago by grubby
odd that this should come up now - we've been considering adding a link to show you who has positively reviewed your review or comment, but I didn't think it was wise to show who had panned you. Perhaps that's terribly undemocratic, but it does seem to have a lot of potential for stirring up trouble, and would deter people from using the "utter rubbish" button (and I think it does serve a purpose). "Utter rubbish"can sound a bit extreme but we chose those words precisely because they are over-the-top, thinking that a bit of humor would soften the blow. Anyway it's great to hear what you all think all of it is "Well-Written," "Funny," "Accurate," and definitely "Useful" so please carry on.
answered about 5 months ago by guadalquivir
I actually think that in most cases it's pretty obvious why a particular review was given a Utter Rubbish. The examples are many, and I can think of the recent Green Mango posts or the fake reviews that people associated with the establishments post. I once posted a bad review on X5 Club because I honestly thought it was a terrible place. It happened to be the venue for a Noizee party so obviously I got a few Utter Rubbish, which I actually found amusing because a venue would be very different with a Noizee party so they shouldn't care so much. Some other times someone has an agenda and people don't like it so they click on Utter Rubbish, innit?
answered about 5 months ago by QUYDA
If you think ppl can abuse the "Utter Rubbish" option, also consider showing ppl who chose possitive opt too, because yes, someone can also abuse them. Again, like all other review system, you have to accept the fact that even it can be good to someone doesnt mean it good for you. And you should take it as a subjective view. Last, as in DMB's "What you are": Dont trust me, trust yourself:-D
"...Anonymous Utter rubbish for me is the same thing like the people who write, make comments, criticize on this website under a fake name without putting a picture or give their real name." And your picture of some bald guy behind two enormous headlamps is supposed to validate your reviews?
I think whoever gets the most 'utter rubbishes' every month should be given one of the free drink/meal prizes. Then we'll see how quickly Philippe changes his tune.
Jimbo, Interesting angle - although I suspect such a incentive may drop the quality of reviews on this fine site. I know that I, for one, would start to author reviews differently if I knew I would be rewarded for sub-stabdard worj=k (I'm such a sucker for free stuff). In fact I might even start to slip in the grammer, spelling, & typo areas....
answered about 2 months ago by TscTempest
LOL! I really needed to read this, because the U-R was starting to bug me too. e.g., 'we had a great time...' - utter rubbish. :-D Love It! However, it did get me thinking along similar lines. My take was that a system message pop up to confirm 'what ever' answer rating was given, so that the person can stop an consider their impending action. After this yo get an inbox item saying 'so and so thought your review [or comment etc.] was .....' This would be great for networking, in in the case of U-R, well... followup if one shaould want or future reference.
answered about 2 months ago by PhilippeP
It seems that some funny guys like to play with the click for nothing or may be sometime I am sure because your comment was not gramatically correct or other considerations that has nothing to do with the purpose of this site, now I just ignore it and everyone should do the same. all 4 other clicks do not deserve any comments except the UR. Go to some other site in the States such as Yelp which is quite well known and you will not find it. However saying that it seems that the creators of this site are still insisting in keeping the click and their explainations did still not convinced me, but I respect that, after all, they are the one who created this site we all enjoy.
answered about 2 months ago by newcham
a "please explain" to the UR option might be useful?
I have a reasonable understanding and 'qualified support' for the UR tag, I think there needs to be a valid mechanism for offering both positive and negative critique. My concern is limited primarily to the anonymity factor and the relevance of the rating to the post. In my view, positive and negative feedback is needs to be directed at specific points in a post to be both valid and useful. As for standards in offering critique, again my views are known and a longstanding matter of public record. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TEFLChinaLife/message/16698 Lastly, I believe this is also an issue of building, developing and enhancing a sense of community, again something I've addressed elsewhere. http://zhuhai.expat9.com/blog/musings-what-a-community
answered about 2 months ago by HanoiAnon
You guys are arguing semantics. It's no different than the "Helpful" and "Not helpful" click on Amazon.com. But it's funnier. If you rip into an well established venue, you're going to get hammered, but if you do it with some tact, most people will respect your opinion. If you're getting utter rubbished too much, it usually means your review gave no relevant details or you came across as a pompous ass.
answered about 1 month ago by TscTempest
This is fun! :-D ha-ha, ha-ha, ha-ha.... HanoiAnon wrote >If you rip into an well established >venue, you're going to get hammered I agree. Totally. 100%. however, even the best places can have their off days, new employees in training and such. HanoiAnon wrote: >if you do it with some tact, most people >will respect your opinion Most? Yes of course, no one can expect "everyone" to agree with them. Relevance, of course is a matter of opinion. I think the main thrust of the argument here is not, so much the use of the term "Utter Rubbish" or the validity of it as a lable, but rather, one of disgust with the idea of annonymous sniping. Sniping characterised by a lack of any discernable reason that relates it to the actual post, review, comment or opinion. If a reviewer shold, as HanoiAnon reports, "gave no relevant details" then take them to task, request more information or for some facts to validate their review. I fail to see how an "Utter Rubbish" rating would then address this issue OR prompt the reviewer to offer further information. There are no guidelines for the quality or content of reviews. Perhaps this could be addressed, by using a standardised review form and if all the fields are not filled in, the review doesn't get posted. __________ And just to pass the time, here's some external opinions I find contributory to this little 'chit-chat' :-D To quote Gerald from The Nightstar Zoo, http://zoo.nightstar.net/viewtopic.php?p=269884&sid=b475a27369ffa6924621fa0213ea69a6 "there is a real legitimate purpose in going through the semantics of an argument. Particularly when the language being used is English. Words have connotations and baggage that accompany them when they are used, and often times the problem in a discussion is that people are using the same word but are thinking about slightly different concepts, and this unspecified difference in concepts is the real source of the disagreement." And this Definition from http://www.consoleheroes.com/forums/blog.php?b=515 "Pompous Ass / pomp·ous ass / ˈpɒmpəs æs / pom-puhs as -noun 1. a stupid, foolish, or stubborn person characterized by an ostentatious display of dignity or importance: a pompous minor official. [Origin: Around the time government began. See also: k_dog]"
answered about 1 month ago by alpha
I think there are a couple of different issues and proposals going on in this thread that haven't been clearly delineated. Some future developments on our part will help, and some explanation of existing policies might as well. For those who have heard much of this in other threads, my apologies, but it seems to come up often. I'll add a summary of it to the User FAQ soon, though I doubt that it will get read enough to really put a dent in the questions. For one, we do have some general review guidelines in the User FAQ. A section on the review feedback merit/demerit system will be added. Adding public feedback/comments on reviews directly or as an explanation of the individual merit/demerit clicks has the potential for disaster. I posted something about it in a previous thread: http://newhanoian.xemzi.com/en/aska/answers/qid/1342 The gist of it is that it can quickly lead to the contributions to the site degenerating into flame wars, and people will use the comment space as a substitute for their own writing of an actual review when they disagree about the characterization of the place. The structured entry of information is essential to the functioning of the site and its ongoing existence as a useful community tool. A comment section like this is likely to lead to a move away from that structured entry. Simply identifying who has clicked also has the potential for things turning ugly, and we feel that there is a more effective way to limit the abusive potential of such clicks without going that route. The basic foundation of it is that not all site users are weighted equally when it comes to their more numerical impact on site dynamics. Of course people will personally and individually respect a given user's contributions to a greater or lesser extent when considering how much trust to put into what was written, but the site itself also distinguishes levels of contribution in a more algorithmic manner. The most obvious way that such mathematical weighting can be brought to bear is on how a given user's star rating affects the overall weighting of a business. I think most of our regular users understand that this is a factor in how places are rated and ranked by this point. However, this same thing can be done with how a given user's clicking of "Well-Written" or "Utter Rubbish" affects the site. One of the most important aspects of those review feedback links is that they raise or lower a given user's mathematical significance to the site (the "coefficient of contribution" among TNH staffers). Generally speaking, positive clicks strengthen your significance, and negative clicks weaken it. However, the extent to which your coefficient of contribution is strengthened or weakened depends on who has given you those clicks. Someone who themselves has greater site significance will raise or lower someone more than a random sign up with no contributions of note. Currently, there isn't a lot of visual evidence of this process. That will change. Additionally, there are a few other ways this dynamic will probably be made more intuitive and easier to stomach for those of you who cringe at those UR clicks piling up anonymously. 1) We can give each review or answer a "user response" graphic (like a bar) that shows not only the discrete number of various clicks, but also their aggregate impact when the clickers' relative site significance is taken into account. 2) We can add another less over the top click (like jimbo suggested) along the lines of "I'm dubious" or "meh". As was mentioned, we chose "Utter Rubbish" so people wouldn't take it so seriously, but so it goes. 3) We could allow people to post comments on a review, but they would only be made visible to the original review poster and the person offering the feedback. In those cases where you think the original reviewer was sincere, but mistaken, it could be valuable. It would also give people a chance to offer compliments to some of our better contributors. We would not, however, make those public, nor would it be mandatory for clicking one of those feedback links. Like it or not, the anonymity of those links is essential to their getting used in numbers high enough for them to be an effective self-policing tool. The fact is, we'd like to see them being used more than they already are. Giving some visible evidence of their impact is likely to aid on that front as well. Does that help any?
answered about 1 month ago by hippo
I can't believe that people are losing sleep over their "UT" score !! God heavens NO it can't be some click "UT" (not always me in case your wondering).... I need some reason why someone would be so hateful. I have an idea...get a life and stop worrying about something so trivial !!! Jesus some of you need to get out of their little bubble and GET OUT SOME !!! Damn computer geeks... this site isn't made for nuthuggers who care about "UT"...its about going out and seeing Hanoi...visiting the places reviewed not just reading about them. Now wipe your tears, grow some balls and go out!!!! And yes I am going to be the first person to "UT" - ALPHA, just so he can feel the pain and suffering :) Cheers
answered about 1 month ago by jimbo
What's 'UT'? Utter Truth?
answered about 1 month ago by HanoiAnon
Hippo vs. Jimbo The event we've all been waiting for...
ROFLMAO @ Hippo. Loosing sleep? Not me. :-D @ alpha, very well put, and illuminating, thanks. UT=Utterly Trivial lol. ---signing off.
answered about 4 weeks ago by PhilippeP
Well, well, well, now we inheritate of 2 clicks for the price of one utter rubbish!! Nice I can live with Meh, means to me someone that does not agree with the comments but is too lazy or do not have the time to post one. But what about fail, fail what!!!
answered about 4 weeks ago by granteralus
See: http://failblog.org
